5 Ton Power Steering Question

[Jones]

OK Guys, here's a topic to debate.
Got a 5 ton power steering system and the L.O. for it calls for HDO 10w (10 weight motor oil); and a power steering pump that runs with power steering fluid. How close are 10w and ATF? I don't want to hurt the pump by running 10w through it and I don't want to hurt the power steering system by running ATF through it. So what do I do, Dear abby?

 

[cranetruck]

I'm in a similar situation, got five gallons of ATF (Dexron) on the shelf now for the xm757, but am having second thoughts about replacing the Allison transmission fluid with it. The LO calls for 10W motor oil (OE 10) and that's what's in the transmission now from the looks of it.
I have mixed ATF and a fine oil (actually pneumatic tool oil) in a beaker and they mix perfectly, no separation. Not sure what that proves, but did it anywhow.
Read an article written by Steve Turchet where he used ATF in automatic transmissions instead of 10W oil and he reported no problems. Those were M211 trucks.

The power steering also calls for OE 10.

Bottom line is OE 10 and ATF must be very similar, so to repeat Leonards question, what's the difference and where does power steering fluid fit in?

Currently leaning heavily towards using OE 10 for both systems and returning the AFT....

(This is not to steal your thread, Leonard, just wanted to reinforce the problem)

 

[rumplecat]

There is 90 weight gear lube in mine and it runs fine, I have the old style PS.
James G.

 

[acetomatoco]

The power steering setup on 5 tons is designed for engine oil...why would you want to change.?.. Even the 800 series pump, a separate belt driven pump, is supplied with engine oil..

 

[cranetruck]

Re: RE: 5 Ton Power Steering Question

The power steering setup on 5 tons is designed for engine oil...why would you want to change.?.. ..

Ref Transmission fluid: For one thing, conflicting info from the manuals. The TM -10 calls for OE 10W, the LO calls for OE (could be 30, could be 10) and the Transmission TM calls for Transmission fluid type C2 (see attached). In addition the newer Allisons are using Dexron II.

I have found Texaco TO-4 type C4 10W "Drivetrain fluid" to confuse matters a bit more.

I haven't even started checking on the power steering yet.

 

[Jones]

RE: Re: RE: 5 Ton Power Steering Question

Rumplecat, would that 90w be in the early "Armstrong" type power steering?
Ace, I think Bjorn and I are concerned about wounding something we've worked hard on and something we'll eventually have to find parts for, and repair, out in the middle of nowhere should we make the wrong decision. Going with ATF is to keep the pump on my Cummins happy which is not a swap-out-and-use-a-different-kind item as it's part of the air compressor assembly. Compatibility with seals and hoses first comes to mind; as well as flash points for either as surprising amounts of heat are generated when running "non-compressable fluids" in hydraulic systems under load.

 

[Jones]

RE: Re: RE: 5 Ton Power Steering Question

OK... Just got off the phone to an outfit that does all kinds of heavy duty power steering work and got some info to share.
First; they say not to use 10w motor oil in power steering applications. Their recommendation is either Dexron with the warning that it's flammable and not safe around gas engine apps because of the chance of fires from leaks or burst hoses. The second recommendation is 15-40 motor oil as long as it's not synthetic. This is from an outfit that works on ex-military 2 1/2 and 5 ton trucks converted to fire-fighting rigs.
Got a tidbit of information in passing that's even more valuable. To all us builder/experimenters out there; Make sure everything in your hydraulic system is compatible. Turns out the power steering pump on my Cummins is way over-pressured for the Ross box and assist ram on the baby HEMTT. The tech guy says running the two systems together is a great way to assure them that I'd be back for relacement components time and time again, in between the numerous times I could be spending replacing steering stops and knuckles. For a handy tech tips .pdf file as well as other info go to www.babsteering.com and click on the services tab.

 

[rumplecat]

RE: Re: RE: 5 Ton Power Steering Question

Jones:
I am not sure I was told I have the original steering on my M543A2 wrecker, not the update version? So I should dump my 90 wt. and go with Dexron (ATF)?
James G.

 

[cranetruck]

RE: Re: RE: 5 Ton Power Steering Question

My jury is still out on this one.

There was a multi issue article on oils in the MVM a few years ago, I got some reading to do....

 

[Jones]

RE: Re: RE: 5 Ton Power Steering Question

Rumplecat,
Give the tech guys at BAB Steering a call and ask for Bill Carlson in tech support. He says he's been at this for 45 years and can give you the straight dope on what you want to run. Gotta say though that, to me, 90w sounds pretty stiff for power steering apps. More like what you'd use in a manual steering box.

 

[BEASTMASTER]

RE: Re: RE: 5 Ton Power Steering Question

tell you what guys,i got 30 wght in my power steering and when i got to plow and it's 20 degrees out ,i gotta sit there and let the thing warm up so i can steer the thing

 

[cranetruck]

Found another note supporting the SAE 10W viscosity oil for the steering system (not the steering gear).

The oil specified for the hydraulic crane is SAE 10W also, but since it hasn't been in stock locally, I have always used 30W hydraulic oil.
Gotto find some 10W hydraulic oil it seems.

 

[jatonka]

All of my data shows OE-10 motor oil for 5 ton power steering units Also, do not put ATF in any transmission that does not have a data tag on it that says it is rebuilt and converted to use ATF. For certain, John Tennis

 

[cranetruck]

Looking at hydraulic oils, we have a whole new world to explore.
Anti-wear properties....proper lubrication of the pump....

Sold my supply of Dexron to the local shop here for less than half price, he was happy and I'm now looking for some 10 weight hydraulic oil. That will be for the Allison transmission and the power steering.

Can't beat these discussions.

 

[Cdub]

The guys at the local truck parts store strongly suggested I use regular Power Steering Fluid. When I filled it to the proper level and it looked like red trans fluid had been used before.

Cheers,


C'dub

 

[rumplecat]

10 Wt. Motor Oil?

Where do you find 10 wt. motor oil, I have checked a couple of the local parts places, no 10 wt. I have my 90 wt. draining out now, I need something to replace it with, will regular power steering fluid hurt the system???
James G.

 

[CGarbee]

Re: RE: 5 Ton Power Steering Question

Ref Transmission fluid: Transmission TM calls for Transmission fluid type C2 (see attached).

Bjorn, my reading of the Transmission TM that you attached is that it calls for Transmission Fluid C2, or 10w engine oil (MIL-L-2104 is the older military specification for engine oils sorta like the API, Cummins, Mack, SAE specifications.

I can pull up the Milspec on Monday when I am in the office (I have lots of Milspec, AASHTO, ASTM, etc on the shelves...).

Meanwhile, I found a nice webpage that shows the definitions of the various Milspecs, API classificaitons, viscosity ratings, etc. for engine oils, gear oils, and greases at:
http://www.speedol.com.tr/english/teknikbilgiler.html

As to the question of where to get OE10, Warren Oil makes 10wt oil and it is available from Agri-Supply... You have to look for it under the "Coastal" line produced by the Warren Unilube division...
To snip from thier website:
http://www.warrenunilube.com/motoroils.html
"Heavy Duty Fleet Motor Oils
Coastal HD Fleet Motor Oils are premium quality engine oils meeting the requirements of diesel and gasoline engines requiring an API CI-4 (15W-40), CF-4 (15W-40), CH-4 (15W-40) and CG-4 (15W-40), CF-2, CF, SL, (15W-40, 30, 40, 50). They are designed for use in both turbocharged and naturally aspirated diesel engines and meet the requirements of all diesel engines used in heavy duty trucking, construction, mining, and farm equipment.
Coastal Fleet 10
Coastal Fleet 30
Coastal Fleet 40
Coastal Fleet 50
Coastal Fleet 15w40"

Enjoy.

 

[cranetruck]

RE: Re: RE: 5 Ton Power Steering Question

Thanks Cabell.

 

[cranetruck]

OK Guys, here's a topic to debate.
Got a 5 ton power steering system and the L.O. for it calls for HDO 10w (10 weight motor oil); and a power steering pump that runs with power steering fluid. How close are 10w and ATF? I don't want to hurt the pump by running 10w through it and I don't want to hurt the power steering system by running ATF through it. So what do I do, Dear abby?

Found this in a PS mag article on the M915 series trucks.

 

[cranetruck]

RE: Re: 5 Ton Power Steering Question

Found out that hydraulic fluid labeled AW32 actually has a viscosity rating equivalent to SAE 10.
The recommended fluid appears to be "Premium Tractor Hydraulic Fluid", which has an equivalent SAE rating of 10W-20 or so.
It's used for transmissions and power steering system. Costs about $35-40/5gal.
Just about every automotive/farm store around here carries it. Hydraulic fluid should not be used in transmissions according to the counter guys.