GET35KW, K14 relay clicking

[ztugdriver]

I was wondering if interview have come across a clicking or chattering relay number K 14. Once the generator starts a few seconds later, the alternator kicks in and the relay K 14 starts to chatter. I’ve tried my best to troubleshoot why this is happening, but I’m stumped. The generator is a MEP – 803B. From what I can tell, it’s getting good voltage around 26 1/2 V the alternator is charging once the timer delay is up. Could it be that the timer delay is faulty sending a bearing voltage to the relay any input would be greatly appreciated thank you.

 

[Scoobyshep]

There's a little trick for relays. Since you never know who stuck their fingers in what you always want to look really closely at the relay and make sure it is the correct one. A 24vdc relay looks exactly like a 24 vac relay. They'll even work when interchanged but they don't always like it.

Personally I would swap that relay with a different one and see if the problem moves or continues in the same location

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[Guyfang]

Do you mean a MEP-803A? I have never heard of an MEP-803B. Or maybe an MEP-804B?

Are you sure its a K14? There is no K14 in a MEP-803. But there is a K14 in the MEP-804B. Please find out what gererator you have and update us.

 

[ztugdriver]

i’m helping a friend with this issue and he told me it was an 803B I’ve attached an image of the placard on the unit. It could very well be an 803 a. The first thing I tried was swapping relays and it didn’t solve the issue. Using the drawings and wiring diagrams I’ve traced all the wires connected to that relay and they all are connected and tight. Thanks again for your quick responses.

 

[ztugdriver]

View attachment 958411
i’m helping a friend with this issue and he told me it was an 803B I’ve attached an image of the placard on the unit. It could very well be an 803 a. The first thing I tried was swapping relays and it didn’t solve the issue. Using the drawings and wiring diagrams I’ve traced all the wires connected to that relay and they all are connected and tight. Thanks again for your quick responses.

My apologies it is not a MEP it’s a
62-GET35KW8 I should have checked myself before posting.

 

[Guyfang]

I changed the title of the thread, so the people who are Get 35 KW smart will see it.

 

[ztugdriver]

Thank you and Happy Thanksgiving

 

[LuckeyD]

The K14 coil is energized by the phase L1 thru a 5 second time delay relay. It arms the Low oil pressure switch. See page 2 of the colored schematic. The contacts ate on page 1 which is by the LOP switch and the K5. The idea is to allow the gen to build up oil pressure before the K14 is energized arming the K5 and LOP circuit.
1. Use a DMM and measure the gen frequency. These run real good at 60.5 Hertz. If adjusted right it will take the entire load and only drop about 1 Hz.
2. If freq is good; The relay K14 is an AC coil which should stay energized with its power coming from a 5 second time delay coil.
3. Use the DMM set for AC voltage. Black lead on Neutral, red lead on the relay coil. After start 5 seconds later you should read 120VAC. The relay should engage. Sounds from what you have said above the time delay either has a loose connection or is failing. These failed on every rotation on one gen someplace. if the time delay is cutting out look it over, ensure the dip switches are engaged as they should be and even try another setting of a few more seconds. Old ones even had a fuse in them and this would become corroded. These gens would have lose connections. and even a broken wire sometimes.

Give these a go.

 

[ztugdriver]

Thank you wet much for the explanation I will look at what you suggested and post back what I find hopefully in the next few days. I didn’t realize that K15 was an AC relay I know for a fact that there is a DC relay installed in there now. That’s the first thing I will try and figure out. The time delay is working because the chattering doesn’t start for about 5 seconds after the engine reaches full rpm. Thank you so much for the help.

 

[Scoobyshep]

Putting a DC relay into an AC control circuit has been known to cause chattering. That's also why a larger contactors that are controlled by AC have a shading coil. In the laminated cores of the magnetic coil there is a perpendicular plate that causes a disturbance of the magnetic field which helps keep the flux strong enough to keep the cores tightly held together during the times when the AC wave crosses zero. Back in the day when people used to rebuild contactors and they weren't just all throw away you'd have a freshly rebuilt contactor chattering away because they didn't put the shading coils in the correct orientation.

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[ztugdriver]

Thanks again for that info I will let you know what I find out

 

[Guyfang]

Yeah, a chattering relay, often means a DC relay in an AC circuit.

 

[ztugdriver]

So I have three of these units and 2 are running with minor issues like this relay. I opened up the one in question and right away noticed that the relay was a dc relay but it did say it could be used on AC. Any way I swapped it with one that said AC and the is no more buzzing and the alternator is charging as it should. I will post a picture of the relay when I can so others can reference if needed. Thank you for all of your help and time.
I’ve managed to get two of these units running but you can tell someone has been inside messing around a bit.
I am converting one unit to 240/120 single phase by changing the wires in the generator end to low zig zag. The marathon manual says it will be 23kw but that’s all I need anyway. I fired it up and adjusted the VR and it worked fine. The volt and amp meters worked fine. I’m considering disconnecting the load banks but still thinking about if it’s necessary. I’m trying to find something to test the output and see if it is close to the 23kw the manual said it should be.

anyway thanks again and aloha

 

[Scoobyshep]

Congratulations on your success

 

[LuckeyD]

SuperCool! The load banks were used to load the gen if light loads were applied to the gen set. They were to shed off when the ECU or other items loaded the gen. This was the resolve for engine slobber said one PSI Rep. Units had minimal info and they played to see if they could repair them, of do something it was not supposed to do. Units usually overloaded them trying to run the ECU and mission equipment so they would have less fuel burning things to move. It was supposed to be a utility gen. Oh well, now it can run your house. They do like fuel though. Get ya thru a bad time too.

 

[ztugdriver]

SuperCool! The load banks were used to load the gen if light loads were applied to the gen set. They were to shed off when the ECU or other items loaded the gen. This was the resolve for engine slobber said one PSI Rep. Units had minimal info and they played to see if they could repair them, of do something it was not supposed to do. Units usually overloaded them trying to run the ECU and mission equipment so they would have less fuel burning things to move. It was supposed to be a utility gen. Oh well, now it can run your house. They do like fuel though. Get ya thru a bad time too.

Do you know if I just shut off the circuit breakers for the load banks if that’s enough to remove them from the system? I understand their purpose but if I have the generator running, it’s gonna be at pretty much full load. It won’t be idling. I’m gonna use it to run farm equipment for a mushroom growing operation. It’s only to cover a few morning hours when the batteries are too low to operate everything it would be turned on until the sun comes up and starts charging the batteries. I guess it wouldn’t matter if they were on provided the system still works as it’s designed to Shead the loads once there’s enough draw on the generator. I’m not sure if me changing it to single phase 240 is gonna affect how it’s supposed to operate. Any thoughts?

 

[LuckeyD]

From proprietary documents I found
1.3.6 Load Bank: The DEG is equipped with a 10kW load bank consisting of 4kW and
6kW resistive loads that may be added to the system load as 4kW, 6kW or 10kW load.
The load is added to the existing load by closing the appropriate circuit breakers at the
circuit breaker panel. This load should be added to keep the DEG operating at loads of
at least 10kW. Running the DEG at light loads for a extended period will result in
improper combustion and a condition called wet stacking. The Load Bank is
automatically disengaged whenever the DEG is not providing power. Load Banks are
automatically shed when not required.

 

[ztugdriver]

Thank you for that info. Hopefully the system still works properly after voltage I’m hoping to do a test later on this week. I’ll just keep it hooked up if everything works as it should.

 

[ztugdriver]

Just an update. I got everything working and the unit is delivering at least 60 A of 240 V single phase power I haven’t been able to apply any more of a load than that. I did notice that with the load banks on as I increase the load from different equipment it did not shed the loads from the load bank. I was wondering if someone could tell me which wires I need to change. I’m just guessing, but because it’s no longer 208 3 phase the sensing circuit must not be on the same legs that I am using for 240 V single face. If someone could maybe give me an idea of how I could get that to work properly that would be awesome. I don’t wanna just start swapping wires and end up burning something up. And I have no idea where to begin. Thank you.

 

[LuckeyD]

I really can't say cause it was designed to shed sensing 3 phase power. I would just open the load bank CBs cause of the coin thing. More for the better half for a dinner at this time of year. Glad all seems to work for you..