Lifecycle status for HMMWV in military?

[LCA078]

I think it's safe to say there's been a pretty large shift in battlefield doctrine over the past few years so I'm curious to know what folks think is the current status of the HMMWV regarding longevity and numbers in the military. Seems like some of the newer things like the JLTV is being phased out (for the Army anyway) while the HMMWV is continuing to be a major workhorse...at least in non-kinetic activities. Thoughts?

 

[TOBASH]

Been discussed many times.

 

[LCA078]

Been discussed many times.

Yes, I know but most of it here is old info. With the latest lessons learned in Ukraine and the current administration, I'm looking for today's situation and planned outlook. If I missed a post with this kind of recent understanding, feel free to direct me to it.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

FMTV is “Familly of Medium Tactical Vehicles“ and no,they haven’t been phased out….still need to move beans and bullets on the battlefield, move towed artillery and just about anything else.

 

[LCA078]

I appreciate the input so far but I feel like I squirted the wrong freq hop into my SINGARS for this post . Let me try again:

Everything I know is from searching the internet so I was hoping those in the know might be able to confirm/deny some of my understanding. For light trucks, like HMWWV, JLTV, ISV, etc., I understand the military's plan rolling into 2025 was to replace most of the HMMWV's in front line units with the JLTV. That plan was drastically changed this summer when the Army stopped ordering JLTVs and will only get ~20k of them or less than half of the original plan. I understand Marines will still order some JLTVs but not near the volume the Army was thinking. The ISV Chevy Colorado dune buggy will used by some 'tip of spear' units but I understand it won't be any real numbers being ordered anytime soon, if ever. And I understand that very few new HMMWVs will be built as the older, thin skins ones are being completely rebuilt. So this leaves ~50k HMMWVs in the fleet and as expected, they will be mainly used in rear ops and logistical efforts. And this also means that a new service member joining a non-combat arms Guard or Reserve unit today can expect to spend an entire 20 year career only seeing HMMWVs in their motorpool.

So...why does this matter? First, I was hoping to better understand the future turn-ins of HMMWVs. The turn-in pipeline that fed the usual auction sites was fairly wide open the past couple years since the plan was to quickly phase in the JLTV. But now, I wonder if this means that the pipeline will now dwindle to a trickle, especially for the 'modern' HMMWVs. Or will it even speed up for a bit while the military dumps a lot of older trucks to save maintenance and repair costs from maintaining a fleet that probably won't see the Desert Storm or Iraqi Freedom mentality ever again. Second, I was curious about the rebuild and upgrade plans for the HMMWVs they will keep. I've heard everything from simply adding ABS to a full electronic digital sensor/control system for the engine. And what engine will that be?

So yeah, I just had a lot of questions in my head and wanted to know if anyone could help answer them.

And here's a couple links I found to explain my understanding:
https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IF11729

PEO CS&CSS: Product Director Light Tactical Vehicles

www.peocscss.army.mil

.

And yes, the FMTV family is a whole different beast with it's own future but here I'm just talking about light trucks, not medium or heavy trucks.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

You have a

I appreciate the input so far but I feel like I squirted the wrong freq hop into my SINGARS for this post . Let me try again:

Everything I know is from searching the internet so I was hoping those in the know might be able to confirm/deny some of my understanding. For light trucks, like HMWWV, JLTV, ISV, etc., I understand the military's plan rolling into 2025 was to replace most of the HMMWV's in front line units with the JLTV. That plan was drastically changed this summer when the Army stopped ordering JLTVs and will only get ~20k of them or less than half of the original plan. I understand Marines will still order some JLTVs but not near the volume the Army was thinking. The ISV Chevy Colorado dune buggy will used by some 'tip of spear' units but I understand it won't be any real numbers being ordered anytime soon, if ever. And I understand that very few new HMMWVs will be built as the older, thin skins ones are being completely rebuilt. So this leaves ~50k HMMWVs in the fleet and as expected, they will be mainly used in rear ops and logistical efforts. And this also means that a new service member joining a non-combat arms Guard or Reserve unit today can expect to spend an entire 20 year career only seeing HMMWVs in their motorpool.

So...why does this matter? First, I was hoping to better understand the future turn-ins of HMMWVs. The turn-in pipeline that fed the usual auction sites was fairly wide open the past couple years since the plan was to quickly phase in the JLTV. But now, I wonder if this means that the pipeline will now dwindle to a trickle, especially for the 'modern' HMMWVs. Or will it even speed up for a bit while the military dumps a lot of older trucks to save maintenance and repair costs from maintaining a fleet that probably won't see the Desert Storm or Iraqi Freedom mentality ever again. Second, I was curious about the rebuild and upgrade plans for the HMMWVs they will keep. I've heard everything from simply adding ABS to a full electronic digital sensor/control system for the engine. And what engine will that be?

So yeah, I just had a lot of questions in my head and wanted to know if anyone could help answer them.

And here's a couple links I found to explain my understanding:
https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IF11729

PEO CS&CSS: Product Director Light Tactical Vehicles

www.peocscss.army.mil

.

And yes, the FMTV family is a whole different beast with it's own future but here I'm just talking about light trucks, not medium or heavy trucks.

You have about 7 different areas that would require Seperate long winded answers, here’s my compacted .02 :

-The JLTV was never designed replace the HMMWV in numbers
-The hmmwv is still being produced and isn’t set to be “retired” till 2040, meaning it will probably go longer with “SLEP’s”, the hmmwv is 40yrs old and still has god knows how many vehicles still in service, not even remotely soon to be replaced by anything I’m aware of on the drawing board.
-The Ukraine conflict has flipped everything the Military ever knew and prepared for, the emphasis is now “Drones”, Helicopters won’t survive on the “modern”battlefield.
-The Chevy Colorado is just an oversized battlefield taxi that anyone with a brain cell knew wouldn’t last 5mins after it debuted.
-The rolling stock contract is still held by GovPlanet for excess turn-in of DLA assets, there have been NO Turbo trucks from DLA to date, only older AO/A2 variants, all Turbo variants have been and continue to be “Exchange“ program assets from the USMC.

Each bullet point would require more in depth research as to how it got to where it is and where it’s going,there is no single answer because
politics and Money play a huge role in all It.

 

[Gamble]

This may explain the lack of REV trucks in the auctions as of late. Maybe this can help REV trucks keep their value?

 

[kendelrio]

This may explain the lack of REV trucks in the auctions as of late. Maybe this can help REV trucks keep their value?

So you're saying I can realistically ask $500,000 for my REV Turbo USMC/Umbrella M1114?

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

This may explain the lack of REV trucks in the auctions as of late. Maybe this can help REV trucks keep their value?

The govt shutdown has caused the lack of listings for GP trucks, the DLA folks who certify the trucks to issue the Demil letters were not working and previous to that was the Govt Travel ban…No Demil letter? Not allowed to sell

 

[NDT]

Agree the ISV will never replace the HMMWV. Silly thing weighs 5000 lbs, HMMWV is only 200 lbs more set up as 4 man. And with that Brazil made baby DMax? The simple 6.5 is a much better choice for the field.

 

[TOBASH]

Agree the ISV will never replace the HMMWV. Silly thing weighs 5000 lbs, HMMWV is only 200 lbs more set up as 4 man. And with that Brazil made baby DMax? The simple 6.5 is a much better choice for the field.

Mechanical USA made Diesel engines are IMHO better for our armed forces.

Less tech under fire on the battlefield equals easier servicing under fire without needing computers to dx and replacement ECU’s to source.

Analogous concept… Do you want a simple distributor with adjustable points on a gasoline engine, or do you want a computer ignition system needing repair in the middle of nowhere, either in the desert or in the freezing cold? Alls I need is a distributor using points, a screwdriver, and a thin celluloid like a cigarette wrapper to gap. No ECU, no sensors spitting out error codes that could be suspect. No corroded ECU contacts. No blown ECU’s caused by bad alternators and bad batteries.

Simple DS2. Low pressure IP that runs on JP8, diesel, biodiesel, food oil, waste oil… No crazy high pressure IP’s that can only accept high grade/low viscosity Diesel fuel.

IMHO

 

[osteo16]

I appreciate the input so far but I feel like I squirted the wrong freq hop into my SINGARS for this post . Let me try again:

Everything I know is from searching the internet so I was hoping those in the know might be able to confirm/deny some of my understanding. For light trucks, like HMWWV, JLTV, ISV, etc., I understand the military's plan rolling into 2025 was to replace most of the HMMWV's in front line units with the JLTV. That plan was drastically changed this summer when the Army stopped ordering JLTVs and will only get ~20k of them or less than half of the original plan. I understand Marines will still order some JLTVs but not near the volume the Army was thinking. The ISV Chevy Colorado dune buggy will used by some 'tip of spear' units but I understand it won't be any real numbers being ordered anytime soon, if ever. And I understand that very few new HMMWVs will be built as the older, thin skins ones are being completely rebuilt. So this leaves ~50k HMMWVs in the fleet and as expected, they will be mainly used in rear ops and logistical efforts. And this also means that a new service member joining a non-combat arms Guard or Reserve unit today can expect to spend an entire 20 year career only seeing HMMWVs in their motorpool.

So...why does this matter? First, I was hoping to better understand the future turn-ins of HMMWVs. The turn-in pipeline that fed the usual auction sites was fairly wide open the past couple years since the plan was to quickly phase in the JLTV. But now, I wonder if this means that the pipeline will now dwindle to a trickle, especially for the 'modern' HMMWVs. Or will it even speed up for a bit while the military dumps a lot of older trucks to save maintenance and repair costs from maintaining a fleet that probably won't see the Desert Storm or Iraqi Freedom mentality ever again. Second, I was curious about the rebuild and upgrade plans for the HMMWVs they will keep. I've heard everything from simply adding ABS to a full electronic digital sensor/control system for the engine. And what engine will that be?

So yeah, I just had a lot of questions in my head and wanted to know if anyone could help answer them.

And here's a couple links I found to explain my understanding:
https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IF11729

PEO CS&CSS: Product Director Light Tactical Vehicles

www.peocscss.army.mil

.

And yes, the FMTV family is a whole different beast with it's own future but here I'm just talking about light trucks, not medium or heavy trucks.

Id say they are gonna focus on more tactival measures... Bombing.. Etc.. We dont need more troops on the ground when we have supperior firepower to take care of the issues.. My 2 cents... Trucks and troops cause casualties..

 

[sigo]

All Regular Army Infantry Brigade Combat Teams are converting to Mobile Brigade Combat Teams. ISVs are the primary vehicle in an MBCTs, so the Army intends to purchase thousands more ISVs. I think there are 14 compo 1 IBCTs at approximately 260 ISVs each. Last I knew the FDU wasn’t approved yet but if it isnt it will be soon. The CSA has already said do it, so the conversions are happening, the Army just has to settle on the final MTOE for an MBCT.

 

[LCA078]

If Army Compo 1 kinetic units are converting to ISVs, then Compo 2 (with about 1.5x as many infantry brigades) of similar mission set won't be too far behind. In the grand scheme of things, if Compo 2 is 5 years behind the active guys for a large new equipment fielding, that's still a pretty fast conversion. I see no reason where Compo 3 would have ISVs except maybe in the MPs. And that's a big maybe.

But after 30 years of living through every other grand idea of new equipment fielding, I'll believe ISVs are real only after the vehicles are in the motor pools.

 

[sigo]

The current 20 compo 2 IBCTs won’t all remain as they are now. Nor will the ABCTs or SBCTs. The total Army transformation initiative that’s underway has many more changes than just IBCT to MBCT conversions. But as always, it’s a matter of time and money. The way things are shaping up the Army won’t have the funding to do everything that’s projected over the next several years. I’ll be surprised if the Army can purchase the number of ISVs necessary to create 21+ MBCTs in the anticipated timeline.

 

[TOBASH]

I believe this thread has moved off point. IMHO

 

[LCA078]

I think it's still pretty relevant as knowing what/when is replacing the hmmwv adds understanding to the hmmwv lifecycle.

 

[juanprado]

End of the day, There are tons of Army newer models that have not hit surplus yet due to Ukraine etc that down the line will hit the pipeline. They come in waves. Lots of national guard units still fielding older units. It will take time but the platform will be out there for quite a while.

How long did it take to divest of all deuces......

 

[87cr250r]

I have 20 years of fleet operation high and medium speed diesel engines of both electronic and mechanical operation. I absolutely prefer the electronic engines. They're easier to operate and generally more reliable. The problem is that the electronic may randomly stop working while working normally. That's very dangerous on a z-drive tugboat where we suddenly lose 3500 horsepower of steering force on a 100ft boat. There are ways to make electronically controlled engines safe but they don't always get applied. Mechanical engines can suddenly stop working too but sometimes they work poorly before they suddenly stop. They have many more problems in general in my experience.

 

[M1165A1]

I am curious what is the total number of HMMWVs sent to Ukraine. It has to be at least 10,000 given how many I've seen in various videos.

That's certainly helped the .mil clean up its inventory.