802a #2 Gotta be easier than the first...

[Toolslinger]

Yes, actually, it was stuck to the tip on both injectors.

Got them cleaned, at least superficially...
Set up to test them, and still have no fuel to the pumps.
Swapped another pump in for the Facet, and still nothing. Plenty of fuel coming back down the return line.
Ran the batteries down trying to get fuel out the top of the pumps. There's fuel at the inlet barbs. Didn't get anything out the next point, or out the top. I'm going to pull them again to make sure I didn't do anything stupid in there...

Decided to stop before I got frustrated, and did something careless. There will be another day.

 

[Ray70]

I assume the throttle knob is pulled out some? maybe 3/4 of the way out?
If the FSS is pulling back and the lever is moving to the right as the FSS retracts, the only things I can think of are Metering pumps are stuck in the compressed position, the pins are not in the rack slots correctly or the rack is not moving freely.
When installing the pumps, if they drop in completely flush to the block surface, they may be stuck part way compressed.
You should need to use the hold down clamp to pull them down the last 1/8", pre-loading the springs.
Last thing would be a problem with the cam / cam gear, but the machine was running, so the cam can't be broken!
If you loosen the metering pump hold downs a little and manually rotate the fuel lever left and right you should see some slight rotational movement in the pumps if the pins are engaged and rack is moving.
Don't loosen the hold downs too much or the pumps will push up a bit and the pins will rub on the inside of the block, binding up the rack.

 

[Toolslinger]

Ok, I've about reached my wits end on this thing.
After last weeks episode, I knew I had to reestablish the fuel rail off position. So I pulled the whole thing apart again, and I even got the right spacers to make the 55.5mm gage to set the fuel rail travel. Disassembly went very easy as I've done it enough times now that I've figured out the needed tricks, and tools.
Put the gage in place, and dropped the pumps back in. Snugged them down after putting the supply side hose on, and got them rotated all the way counterclockwise until they hit the steel tubes.

Took my clamp off the rail holding it to the gage to check movement, and while looking in, I can see the first pump's pin is only about 25% in the slot of the rail. The second was similar, but it's a lot harder to see. I let the lever rotate toward wide open, and neither pump pin moved. There is for sure something really not right in there.
Just to be sure, I pulled the gear cover off the spare engine, set the gage on it, and moved the lever. Pump pins stay fully within the rail's slots.

I am leaning toward swapping the engine out now.

So... If one were to want to swap an engine on an 802a...

• Does that require pulling the entire enclosure apart? (the line between the engine, and gen is pretty much at the divider between engine bay, and electronics)
• Is it possible to pull the gen head without taking the entire thing apart? (the TM seems to indicate taking the head completely apart, but it's also more about fixing the gen, and not so much focused on replacing the engine.)

 

[Guyfang]

Sure. Pull the engine bay doors and engine top off. Then unhook all the wires to the engine. Then remove the entire radiator with housing. Disconnect the output wires and exciter wires from the main gen. Then hook up your lifting chain the the engine. Take off the nut/bolt holding the 4 vibration isolaters, lift a tad and pull the gen set base back. Engine and main gen will be hanging there. The rear will need someone to pull it up a bit, or you sit someone portly on the engine, to lift the rear up. Would I do it that way? No. I would remove both front and rear housings, as I think its faster and easier that way.

 

[Ray70]

On the gen head, yes you must disassemble the entire thing per the manual to separate it from the engine completely.
The rotor bolts to the flywheel from the inside, requiring you to remove the end plate and the stator to access the rotor bolts.
It sounds to me like the rack either has too much movement towards the shut off position ( Fan ) or the rack is bent.
Before swapping the engine, maybe try ignoring the gage and set the lever stop a little further in, just enough to keep the pump pins ( AKA the pimp arms ) in the rack notches. When in the correct position, the pump arms should be directly below the holes in the block where the arms fit through to remove them.
If a little extra reward movement corrects the pins, It would make me think the rack could be bent slightly towards the starter side of the engine.

 

[Guyfang]

Yes, could be bent. A long, long time ago, this was a common problem.

 

[Toolslinger]

The rack is/was bent.
I just spent 7 hours fighting with that thing.
I actually ended up going too far. Now the pumps bind in the bottom of the slot.
That's ok. I know I can tweak it back now.

Planning to tweak it back tomorrow, and then button up enough to get the engine cranking over. Prime it, and check the spray on the injectors. If those look ok then I will start putting it back together.

Will it crank without anything being connected back in the fuel tank area? Do I need to defeat/shot any of the harness to make it happy enough to want to start? (Obviously it isn't going to start with the injectors out, so no danger there)

We won't mention the broken fan pulley with the left hand thread nut... I knew it was left hand. My finger didn't get the message on the impact wrench switch...

 

[Toolslinger]

Another couple hours, and everything appears to be moving as it should in there. I expect it isn't perfect, but it is very close. Hopefully within the tolerance that can be adjusted out externally.

I set the limit screws on the external lever per TM. They're locked with the nuts currently, but I'll have to put some wicking thread locker on there if they're correct, and then try the safety wire.

Waiting on a metric roll pin now. (thank you Amazon for overnight delivery) I mangled the roll pin that holds the block on the end of the fuel rail while removing it the other day. I have now created a pin press to remove it, but I hadn't gotten that serious on first effort, and the pin suffered as a result. It might hold, but I am not putting a might hold piece in there at this point. I'm sure the pin from Amazon isn't the same quality as the OEM, but I'm sure it will be fine.

I'm already set up to test the injectors as soon as that pin gets here.

 

[Toolslinger]

21 minutes later, and the pins just got here... Just finished lunch. Perfect timing.

 

[Toolslinger]

Right.
New roll pin in place. They're not quite as heavy as the OEM, but it'll be fine.

One bad injector replaced.
Replacement probably isn't perfect. It should be ok, and if the unit fires up, then it'll get a does of some flavor of cleaner added to the tank. Might just be gummy as I didn't soak it overnight, just out of the spare engine, and right to testing. There's diesel up to it now, so perhaps it'll soften up a bit overnight.

Swapped the water pump from the spare engine. Hopefully the thermostat, temp sender and switch are ok as I didn't want to disturb any more than I needed to.

Zip tied enough stuff in place to make it safe to run briefly. Plan is to just see if it will fire before I put coolant in, or the whole radiator end sheet metal. I've had enough practice taking that off now... If it fires, and runs, then the end tin goes on, and coolant gets filled.

How are people filling these things without making a huge mess? It really seems like they could have turned that fill upwards a little so gravity didn't screw with you...

Put the chargers on the batteries, and I will see what it has to say in the morning.

 

[Ray70]

Not sure what will happen with the fuel sender and float assy. disconnected.
If everything else was installed I know it would probably start the shut down almost immediately, but with injectors out it may still turn on the pumps and try to start, allowing you to check the pattern.
All you need is the main pump to run and you can manipulate the FSS out of the way manually if necessary.

 

[Ray70]

Yea radiator neck design stinks.
You can get one of the funnels that attaches to the radiator neck and allows you to bleed the air out while running, or just use a flexible funnel and make only a small mess!

 

[Guyfang]

So just jump the low fuel sending circuit.

 

[Toolslinger]

So just jump the low fuel sending circuit.

Excellent.
I was imagining that would come in to play. Hadn't gone through the TM to see what's NO vs NC with the faults.

 

[Guyfang]

You could also just turn the S1 to the run position, dont start it, just turn it to the run position. See you have a low fuel light on the idiot panel, (Fault Indicator panel). If so, then reset the idiot panel, AND HOLD the reset switch up. Do not release it. Then turn S1 to the start position. The set should turn over, and if the injectors are in the engine, it will start.

 

[rickf]

Does this set have a battle run mode? Doesn't that override all of the safeties and blocks?

 

[Light in the Dark]

It overrides most faults but not all. The set can be tricked into allowing the bypass in place (one method is what guy is calling out, but all will be back in play once you release the reset button). Once the set is running using Guys method, the trick is to flip the battle short ON once its going, then release the fault reset button.

 

[Toolslinger]

I honestly didn't notice a fault light, but I wasn't looking as I was reaching over to the switch while looking around the corner at where the injectors were plumbed in... Having a second warm body around would make some of these tasks much easier.

I'll go with the Reset/Battle Short when I get back to it. Naturally it's raining, so outdoor activities are being curtailed. If it was critical, I'd cope, but, this ain't, and I have no desire to be cold and wet.

 

[rickf]

" I have no desire to be cold and wet. "

Wuss!

Coming from a guy who had to spend every winter out plowing snow and running heavy equipment.
I am now retired and I also stay inside and warm.

 

[Guyfang]

Having spent 99% of my work life outside, I agree. I have no desire to get wet. Last Saturday I was wet again. oh well...................................................