Freaking Out About Lack of Climbing Power From Dead Stop.

[Shakkles]

The joy of finally, after a year, moving-into my truck as a full-time van-life experience was unfortunately cut short just this past week when i got stuck for the first time. On flat ground...

I'm running Eco-Hubs and very happy with my purchase still. The shifting is so much smoother and I don't have to worry about the spider gears in the hubs since converting to direct-drive. I was advised/warned at the time "you'll lose a lot of your low end" but since i don't plan on "intentionally off-roading" i couldn't have cared less at the time. And i thought the weight wouldn't be a problem, you lose what 2000lbs just removing the original military bed?

I've been parked this past month on family land that happens to be on a hill. The north side is a steep 8% grade, and i can climb that just fine. when approaching it at about 40mph. However while the south side (where i park) is just a 3ish% grade, to make it that short 1000 feet from a dead stop i basically have to put my foot to the floor. The engine's screaming and yet i'm traveling at just 3mph by the time i reach the top. A few times i just BARELY crested it at just 1mph, foot on the floor. This cannot be good.

Then we got a cold snap and in the dirt i cut some moderate, but not insane ruts. The scary part for me was i literally could NOT get out of the ruts from a dead stop. Foot to the floor, the struck shifts forward or reverse a few inches but then straight up just "does not move". And it isn't even turning the wheels. I just imagine the torque converter sloshing fluid in a torrent but not actually passing any power to the transfer case. 70/30 or 50/50, it seems to make no difference at takeoff. going into 1st gear "maybe" helps?

For clarification, mine is a '96 m1078 with both the AirCon unit and also the hydraulic winch. And the worst part is the camper still isn't completely done yet, it's still going to get slightly heavier AND i currently don't even have the 450lbs spare tire on the truck. It's a steel skeleton with home-made composite panels for walls (2" of XPS foam / 1/4" laminated plywood and 1/8 RV Filon skin. I don't know what the weight is, but it can't be anything "crazy", it just can't. The springs don't look like they've sagged even 1" as it sits and another thing that's surprising me is "this is just the 4x4 version not the 6x6". If id went with the 6x6, sure it's "load capacity would have increased" but it's not like you get a vastly more powerful engine or transmission with it.

I watch dudes like Michael Ladden with his "house AND garage" and, knowing he's rocking eco-hubs also, i gotta ask myself "does he simply only take the thing on flat roads" or is something straight up wrong with my drivetrain?

The only thing I haven't tried is going into 50/50 (Mode) on pavement because, while I'm aware the diffs are open, i'm paranoid of damaging them. Since i have noticed that it climbs much better in reverse (because at 30/70 in reverse you're basically become a 70/30 front wheel drive, maybe 50/50 would work out better?

I really, REALLY don't want to go back to the original hubs if there's any other fix available, but 95% of the places I had to go "are not on totally flat ground".

Anyone else had similar experiences and found some mod/fix that alleviates the issue? I'm aware of the amazing EcoHubs 2.0 announcement but i'm one of those insane people that sold everything they own to build this thing and live in it, and once 90% becomes 100% i will be well and truly flat broke.

 

[Shakkles]

 

[NDT]

I once got into some really soft level ground with my stock M1078, cutting ruts about 8" deep, and it was a full throttle situation to get out. And I'm not talking about wheel spin either, just slogging forward. So it comes as no surprise that the ECOs, as good as they are for the highway, are not good for slop.

 

[Ronmar]

Couple of questions:
What exactly do you mean by ”engines screaming”? Do you have a tach Or a digital volt meter that will read frequency? You really need to know what RPM the engine is stalling at when you apply full pedal.

converter stall test is powertrain diagnosis 101 for an automatic trans. The 3116 reaches peak torque ~1550RPM and ideally the TC stall is right around there also.
so with the truck at a standstill/brakes locked, in 2nd, fully depress the accelerator and note the engine RPM that the engine stops at. In N it will go to 2600 it’s governor limit as there is no load applied to it. In D, It should reach Only as far as stall RPM for the TC. Unfortunately I have found no stall RPM info for our 418 converters. I posted my stall test results here in another discussion, but 5 consecutive tests fell between 1725 and 1750 RPM. Don’t hold this too long as it really heats up the oil.
if the engine won’t reach the normal stall RPM or even peak torque RPM, it may be having trouble creating power.
if the engine exceeds normal TC stall RPM, the TC has an issue and is not multiplying torque properly into the transmission, or something that should be braking in the transmission is instead slipping…

Shifting to mode/50-50 from 70/30 will only make a difference if you are spinning/slipping wheels. That of course would be a traction problem and not a torque issue… your not spinning any wheels right?

of course 1st is a even better mechanical advantage(about the same ratio as reverse) so it should perform better.

If the engine is stalling at ~ engine peak torque, an overall weight might help also. Have you made an impossible weight situation(it does not sound like it). Do you have a scale you can go get a current weight at? Landfills/dumps usually have them and you can get an unofficial weight typically without a fee. My local dump has digital displays outside So I can drive up and get my own weight…

from my own calculations the 3116 should be able to pull 20,000lb up 41* in 1st. Now ruts can add another dynamic to this as it really doesn’t take that much of a rut to create a 41* slope at each wheel and overload the available power, but I really suspect you should see some wheel spin…

if you have access to a DVM that will read frequency, and your RPM sensor on the upper drivers bell-housing is working, you can read RPM easily. Measure volts AC and freq on that sensor. take reading in Hz(cycles per second) divide by 133(ring gear teeth) will give revs per sec,X60 = RPM. So something like 3500HZ/133X60 =1578RPM…

here was the TC stall test discussion…

LMTV Allison Stall Test issues

Cool info. but just neat to know, as it is difficult to pin down absolutes(actual torque produced and multiplication factor) mid power band without adding some fancy instrumentation:) Where this becomes useful is when you reach a slope that takes you to the end, TC stall point near peak torque...

www.steelsoldiers.com

 

[Skyhawk13205]

The joy of finally, after a year, moving-into my truck as a full-time van-life experience was unfortunately cut short just this past week when i got stuck for the first time. On flat ground...

I'm running Eco-Hubs and very happy with my purchase still. The shifting is so much smoother and I don't have to worry about the spider gears in the hubs since converting to direct-drive. I was advised/warned at the time "you'll lose a lot of your low end" but since i don't plan on "intentionally off-roading" i couldn't have cared less at the time. And i thought the weight wouldn't be a problem, you lose what 2000lbs just removing the original military bed?

I've been parked this past month on family land that happens to be on a hill. The north side is a steep 8% grade, and i can climb that just fine. when approaching it at about 40mph. However while the south side (where i park) is just a 3ish% grade, to make it that short 1000 feet from a dead stop i basically have to put my foot to the floor. The engine's screaming and yet i'm traveling at just 3mph by the time i reach the top. A few times i just BARELY crested it at just 1mph, foot on the floor. This cannot be good.

Then we got a cold snap and in the dirt i cut some moderate, but not insane ruts. The scary part for me was i literally could NOT get out of the ruts from a dead stop. Foot to the floor, the struck shifts forward or reverse a few inches but then straight up just "does not move". And it isn't even turning the wheels. I just imagine the torque converter sloshing fluid in a torrent but not actually passing any power to the transfer case. 70/30 or 50/50, it seems to make no difference at takeoff. going into 1st gear "maybe" helps?

For clarification, mine is a '96 m1078 with both the AirCon unit and also the hydraulic winch. And the worst part is the camper still isn't completely done yet, it's still going to get slightly heavier AND i currently don't even have the 450lbs spare tire on the truck. It's a steel skeleton with home-made composite panels for walls (2" of XPS foam / 1/4" laminated plywood and 1/8 RV Filon skin. I don't know what the weight is, but it can't be anything "crazy", it just can't. The springs don't look like they've sagged even 1" as it sits and another thing that's surprising me is "this is just the 4x4 version not the 6x6". If id went with the 6x6, sure it's "load capacity would have increased" but it's not like you get a vastly more powerful engine or transmission with it.

I watch dudes like Michael Ladden with his "house AND garage" and, knowing he's rocking eco-hubs also, i gotta ask myself "does he simply only take the thing on flat roads" or is something straight up wrong with my drivetrain?

The only thing I haven't tried is going into 50/50 (Mode) on pavement because, while I'm aware the diffs are open, i'm paranoid of damaging them. Since i have noticed that it climbs much better in reverse (because at 30/70 in reverse you're basically become a 70/30 front wheel drive, maybe 50/50 would work out better?

I really, REALLY don't want to go back to the original hubs if there's any other fix available, but 95% of the places I had to go "are not on totally flat ground".

Anyone else had similar experiences and found some mod/fix that alleviates the issue? I'm aware of the amazing EcoHubs 2.0 announcement but i'm one of those insane people that sold everything they own to build this thing and live in it, and once 90% becomes 100% i will be well and truly flat broke.

View attachment 963989

I have pulled my parts truck out of the ditch uphill with eco hubs,I have the 3126 with the 275hp tune, it didn’t like it but it did it, the TC was stalled the whole time. Do you have a tach? You need to see it the TC is stalling. Typically if your TC is not stalling and RPM is redlining then your clutches may be slipping.

 

[Shakkles]

When i say screaming, basically the turbo is "fully spooled" and overall the engine sound and feels to be the same RPM as "65mph, foot on the floor, top obtainable speed", however in this sitch i'm not going 65, i'm going like 3mph trying to climb and "I'm giving her all she's got captain!" If I had to make a guess i'd say somewhere in the neighborhood of 2K RPM.

I'd mentioned in a different thread, indeed mine has a tach (that came with the winch system) but it (the tach) isn't hooked up to anything because I don't know how to make it happen. I remember you actually responding about it before but it was unfortunately too technical for me to follow effectively.

I have a decent multimeter but no experience "measuring frequency".

I'm reading what you and the other fellow are mentioned about "stall" with regard to, what i gather is some sort of test" but that's all I've figured out so far. I'd very much like to figure out how run any and all tests that the truck/transmission/etc is capable of. From what i'm reading it has to do with holding the brake down while giving it throttle and i think you're saying "at some point the engine should just die" but unfortunately "if someone hasn't made a youtube video about it (and ive watched every lmtv video on youtube over this past year multiple times) then I have a very hard time figuring out what people are talking about. It's been the bane of my life, trust me.

One thing additional (if it'll make a difference) is that the guy i bought the truck from back in the day had told me (this switch is wired backwards so until you have time to fix it just leave it alone) and it's the winch engage/disengage. For the sake of "i'm out of ideas" i toggled that to the ON position instead and voila, she pulled herself out of the ruts. But JUST barely... Since then i've driven it around and it still won't climb anything even remotely "steep" from a stand still unfortunately. I'm terrified that in the solid year i've had and driven the truck (probably putting around 7000 miles on it) I've done something irreparable to it such as cooking the clutch disks, but i don't know enough about how those systems are actuated to figure it out myself.

 

[Ronmar]

Ok, a stall test doesn’t stall the engine, it simply hits a point where it cannot increase any further in RPM, despite full pedal application

yes it is done like you describe. 2nd gear, stand on the brakes and push the accelerator to the floor and note where the RPM stops increasing. I found where I had posted my stall tests and they all fell between 1725 and 1750 RPM. Unfortunately you really need a tachometer to read accurate RPM or volt meter that reads frequency to gauge these test results. It may be time to enlist some technical assistance(someone who can use a meter to measure frequency).

you can compare a little by ear. The engine unloaded in neutral and with full pedal should run at it’s max governed RPM ~2600(Thats screaming if the stall tests runs at a similar RPM, something is not transferring torque/properly loading down the engine…

 

[hike]

If the turbo is spooled up at no tire go, no tire spin, the torque converter or transmission is not working properly.

In our M1078A1 with EcoHubs over 80 mph in 7th gear we are below 2,000 rpm, not screaming, (I may be screaming, though not the truck). After driving screaming at 58 before EcoHubs, now with EcoHubs we either spin the tires or are going too fast for comfort to be screaming our engine.

Time to look behind the engine, not the EcoHubs—

Within the first 100 seconds; climbing or spinning and moving just fine with our rusty EcoHubsv1.0 with the bed still on—

 

[Ronmar]

If the turbo is spooled up at no tire go, no tire spin, the torque converter or transmission is not working properly.

In our M1078A1 with EcoHubs over 80 mph in 7th gear we are below 2,000 rpm, not screaming, (I may be screaming, though not the truck). After driving screaming at 58 before EcoHubs, now with EcoHubs we either spin the tires or are going too fast for comfort to be screaming our engine.

Time to look behind the engine, not the EcoHubs—

Within the first 100 seconds; climbing or spinning and moving just fine with our rusty EcoHubsv1.0 with the bed still on—

i would disagree with that a little. Turbo output is a factor of engine load(No load, no boost). During a stall condition, you are asking for all the engine has to give, so the turbo will be at full spool/boost/delivery if it is making it to peak torque RPM.

 

[Ronmar]

I have had no real luck finding any specific info for out TC-418 converter beyond it’s peak conversion ratio of 1.98:1. I have been working thru some router config and computer timing and communication issues at work and my google-fu has been pretty weak, so I gave some AI assistance a try. What I have discovered is that AI can deliver some pretty interesting and otherwise unobtainable search results.

so I asked it the stall RPM for the TC-418 question this evening. It immediately asked me engine type, HP and transmission. When I responded it came back with an expected stall RPM of ~1750 which is right about where my stall test have fallen… it also applied the +/- 150 RPM info the Allison tech pub references. Above ~1900RPM, convertor or transmission problem, below ~1600RPM engine power output issue…

FWIW…

 

[hike]

i would disagree with that a little. Turbo output is a factor of engine load(No load, no boost). During a stall condition, you are asking for all the engine has to give, so the turbo will be at full spool/boost/delivery if it is making it to peak torque RPM.

You know a lifetime more information than I ronmar.

I simply found myself following @Shakkles "When i say screaming, basically the turbo is "fully spooled" and overall the engine sound and feels to be the same RPM as "65mph, foot on the floor, top obtainable speed", however in this sitch i'm not going 65, i'm going like 3mph trying to climb and "I'm giving her all she's got captain!" If I had to make a guess i'd say somewhere in the neighborhood of 2K RPM." And his assumption about the partially finished habitat's weight being similar to the factory bed.

As you point out, if he is right about RPM near 2,000 in his video, the issue is likely transmission. Looking to EcoHubs v2.0 is not an answer to this issue, unless his habitat weight estimate is far off the mark—

 

[Shakkles]

The records of the build indicate right at 3,500lbs of steel went into building the frame for the habitat and i figure i've got another 1000lbs, 1,500 tops in the build. Things like the windows, door weigh next to nothing and even the 16 batteries i've got only weight 10 pounds each. I read previously that the bed (that is gone) weighed in at over 2000lbs there's just no way she can be overweight.

As i mentioned before when i toggled the winch it got "better" although still can't climb from a dead stop so i'm wondering if anyone here might have knowledge of how the winch system mechanics works and interfaces with the truck? Or if anyone knows a method or test for diagnosing the torque converter and/or transmission itself?

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Sounds like a power (fueling usually) or transmission issue to me. I've installed ECO hubs on a bunch of trucks..... I think like 8 or 9 now. None have exhibited issues like that. I just did an M1089 chassis with 24' habitat weighing in around 33k lbs. 3126 truck at 330/860 but still - while it's a struggle bus compared to my 370/930 4x4 at 22k lbs - it's got enough low end grunt to get moving very easily.

The math doesn't lie - the truck should be able to climb and empirical evidence from MANY other trucks including all the sets I've personally installed agrees with the math. If your specific example doesn't fit either the math or the real world then your specific truck is the outlier. We have substantial evidence to conclude this so IMHO it would be appropriate to consider engine performance, transmission performance (are you in 1st gear? 2nd gear should have no issue really) and friction such as the brakes, etc....

 

[Ronmar]

You know a lifetime more information than I ronmar.

I simply found myself following @Shakkles "When i say screaming, basically the turbo is "fully spooled" and overall the engine sound and feels to be the same RPM as "65mph, foot on the floor, top obtainable speed", however in this sitch i'm not going 65, i'm going like 3mph trying to climb and "I'm giving her all she's got captain!" If I had to make a guess i'd say somewhere in the neighborhood of 2K RPM." And his assumption about the partially finished habitat's weight being similar to the factory bed.

As you point out, if he is right about RPM near 2,000 in his video, the issue is likely transmission. Looking to EcoHubs v2.0 is not an answer to this issue, unless his habitat weight estimate is far off the mark—

I interpreted screaming to indicate high RPM. But that is very subjective so he really needs a tach reading to nail this down…

 

[Ronmar]

As i mentioned before when i toggled the winch it got "better" although still can't climb from a dead stop so i'm wondering if anyone here might have knowledge of how the winch system mechanics works and interfaces with the truck? Or if anyone knows a method or test for diagnosing the torque converter and/or transmission itself?

The winch control doesn't really do anything in the transmission. the PTO is hard coupled to the aux drive gear on the left side as is the scavenger pump on the right side of the main transmission housing. The winch control basically asks the TCU if it's OK to PTO, at which time it outputs a voltage to activate a solenoid valve to feed pressure to the PTO gearbox clutch to engage and spool up the PTO driven hydraulic pump. When the TCU authorizes PTO, it also limits the ability to shift into gear. The only real effect I see it having is that if it is actually sending pressure to the PTO, this may reduce hydraulic pressure elsewhere in the transmission, and I do not see that as being a good thing.

"if anyone knows a method or test for diagnosing the torque converter and/or transmission itself?"

You have already been given that... The STALL test IS the first test for diagnosing the engine/TC/trans. If it is not making it to 1600RPM, engine power issue. If it is exceeding 1900 RPM, the torque converter is not multiplying/transferring torque properly/slipping or the transmission is slipping somewhere. You need an RPM result from this test to proceed...

There are 3 main speed sensors in play: Input RPM, turbine RPM and output RPM.

When the TCU selects a gear it is looking for a particular relationship between these speed sensors, particularly turbine and output RPM. if you are slipping in the transmission yet not moving, you would have turbine and no output RPM. This should cause an immediate transmission fault(a 22 or 57 code) and the trans locks in the current gear. have caused this one myself leaving the transfer case connector disconnected and driving the truck. had turbine RPM but no output speed signal and it faulted immediately...

If you are exceeding 1900RPM and have no Trans faults, I suspect this is a converter or perhaps an oil flow/pressure issue. So you must also confirm proper pump pressures. The converter is hydraulic. insufficient flow or oil pressure to the converter, or aerated oil would reduce the converters ability to hydraulically transfer torque into the transmission...

Is the trans oil level correct?

 

[Shakkles]

The winch control doesn't really do anything in the transmission. the PTO is hard coupled to the aux drive gear on the left side as is the scavenger pump on the right side of the main transmission housing. The winch control basically asks the TCU if it's OK to PTO, at which time it outputs a voltage to activate a solenoid valve to feed pressure to the PTO gearbox clutch to engage and spool up the PTO driven hydraulic pump. When the TCU authorizes PTO, it also limits the ability to shift into gear. The only real effect I see it having is that if it is actually sending pressure to the PTO, this may reduce hydraulic pressure elsewhere in the transmission, and I do not see that as being a good thing.

"if anyone knows a method or test for diagnosing the torque converter and/or transmission itself?"

You have already been given that... The STALL test IS the first test for diagnosing the engine/TC/trans. If it is not making it to 1600RPM, engine power issue. If it is exceeding 1900 RPM, the torque converter is not multiplying/transferring torque properly/slipping or the transmission is slipping somewhere. You need an RPM result from this test to proceed...

There are 3 main speed sensors in play: Input RPM, turbine RPM and output RPM.

When the TCU selects a gear it is looking for a particular relationship between these speed sensors, particularly turbine and output RPM. if you are slipping in the transmission yet not moving, you would have turbine and no output RPM. This should cause an immediate transmission fault(a 22 or 57 code) and the trans locks in the current gear. have caused this one myself leaving the transfer case connector disconnected and driving the truck. had turbine RPM but no output speed signal and it faulted immediately...

If you are exceeding 1900RPM and have no Trans faults, I suspect this is a converter or perhaps an oil flow/pressure issue. So you must also confirm proper pump pressures. The converter is hydraulic. insufficient flow or oil pressure to the converter, or aerated oil would reduce the converters ability to hydraulically transfer torque into the transmission...

Is the trans oil level correct?

All super useful info and I thank you for it.

My goal, one that i'm determined to make happen is to get both the truck(house) and myself back to the PNW this spring, but the big suck is at this moment it and i are planted at my family's farm in the midwest and the weather is goats@#t. 25 degrees here today but in typical fashion i'm going to jump literally 40 degrees to 65 tomorrow and i can finally run some tests and get back to working on it.

As i mentioned i do physically have the Tach unit, it just isn't connected to anything so i'll be doing research trying to figure that one out, but in lieue of that unit if the TC test you mentioned only asks the question "can the engine make it to high RPM with your foot on the brake i'm already 100% certain that's correct, which would confirm it's slipping in the guts of the transmission somewhere.

The transmission still has engine oil in it and i plan to keep it that way for the foreseeable future. Checking the level has always been a PITA because with a dipstick that long i can never be certain the oil resting on the end of it wasn't accumulated just moving the damn thing in and out of the shaft. As far as i can tell it's sitting at the "cold full" mark although when i bought it last year i did take note it had a lot more oil in it then normal. BUT... it did climb significantly better.

Stupid question (but you never know) there is NO chance any of this could be related to a lack of hydraulic fluid supplying the winch, yeah? I ask because the winch reservoir on the drivers side has always leaked from some gasket i can't find. The level indicator says 3/4 but i've noticed 1) It hasn't moved in months and 2) the leak has stopped, at least during the winter which i just attributed to "it's 0 degrees, the fluid viscosity has increased enough to stop the leak". Also last i used the winch a couple months ago it seemed to work alright, albeit slow. One thing that sucks about that reservoir is the basket inside seems to be fixed in place unlike the diesel tank so i can't just straight-up check it visually. The "knocking on the side of the tank test" sounds to me like it's empty.

 

[Mullaney]

All super useful info and I thank you for it.

My goal, one that i'm determined to make happen is to get both the truck(house) and myself back to the PNW this spring, but the big suck is at this moment it and i are planted at my family's farm in the midwest and the weather is goats@#t. 25 degrees here today but in typical fashion i'm going to jump literally 40 degrees to 65 tomorrow and i can finally run some tests and get back to working on it.

As i mentioned i do physically have the Tach unit, it just isn't connected to anything so i'll be doing research trying to figure that one out, but in lieue of that unit if the TC test you mentioned only asks the question "can the engine make it to high RPM with your foot on the brake i'm already 100% certain that's correct, which would confirm it's slipping in the guts of the transmission somewhere.

The transmission still has engine oil in it and i plan to keep it that way for the foreseeable future. Checking the level has always been a PITA because with a dipstick that long i can never be certain the oil resting on the end of it wasn't accumulated just moving the damn thing in and out of the shaft. As far as i can tell it's sitting at the "cold full" mark although when i bought it last year i did take note it had a lot more oil in it then normal. BUT... it did climb significantly better.

Stupid question (but you never know) there is NO chance any of this could be related to a lack of hydraulic fluid supplying the winch, yeah? I ask because the winch reservoir on the drivers side has always leaked from some gasket i can't find. The level indicator says 3/4 but i've noticed 1) It hasn't moved in months and 2) the leak has stopped, at least during the winter which i just attributed to "it's 0 degrees, the fluid viscosity has increased enough to stop the leak". Also last i used the winch a couple months ago it seemed to work alright, albeit slow. One thing that sucks about that reservoir is the basket inside seems to be fixed in place unlike the diesel tank so i can't just straight-up check it visually. The "knocking on the side of the tank test" sounds to me like it's empty.

.
I honestly don't see how a lack of fluid in the winch reservoir has anything to do with your 'pulling" problem. Those hydraulic winches are not very fast. They do pull pretty well though...

If it really pulled better back when you bought the truck - wonder if maybe you have a bad indication on the dipstick. I mean it is about 5 feet long (estimating). Nothing was broken off on the dipstick - Right? Maybe adding a few quarts of oil to it would help your ability to pull a little harder. Overfilling it is bad - but hey - if it isn't pulling and it does with a few quarts (maybe just two) it sure shouldn't hurt the truck... IMO

 

[Ronmar]

The winch system hydraulic level is completely separate and would have no effect on this.

you are checking the trans oil using the procedure in the -10 operators manual right?

The tach in the dash being an unknown, i would not mess with getting it working for this. Do you know anyone with a digital voltmeter that will read frequency(family, friend, neighbor)? It is a simple measurement and the connector is easy to access right to the rear of the primer/primary fuel filter on the engine bellhousing…

 

[Shakkles]

I just now re-re-re-read the manual and, despite the fact I was certain it made no mention of whether the truck should be running or off when fluid levels are check, sure enough "when idling". FML. In my defense i grew up on a farm and have had almost nothing but stick shifts my entire adult life.

With the engine running... and at 165 degrees, which is straight up THE warmest the engine ever gets especially when its 20 degrees outside, no oil on the dipstick.

Looks like a run to autozone for me!

 

[Ronmar]

running, most definitely running in N...

Here is the procedure from the -10 manual.

"Check transmission/transfer case oil level daily with vehicle parked on level surface and transmission range selector in Neutral (N). Safe operating oil level is when transmission/transfer case fluid level is halfway between "HOT ADD" line and "HOT FULL" line on dipstick. With engine at idle (500-800 rpm) for one minute and engine coolant temperature at normal operating range (165-180 F (74-82 C)), check transmission/transfer case oil level. If level is below "HOT ADD" line, add one (1) quart of oil and check oil level. Repeat this procedure until oil level is halfway between "HOT ADD" line and "HOT FULL" line. If level is above "HOT FULL" line, drain one (1) quart of oil from transmission and check oil level. Repeat this procedure until oil level is halfway between "HOT FULL" line and "HOT ADD" line. Use OE/HDO oil specified for the ambient temperature."

Because of the way they plumed the cooling system on the A0 trucks, they send all the engine heat to the transmission, so it will never get to op temp when it is that cold until the 3000# of heat sync we call a transmission becomes a heat source... Cold weather warmup has the truck with park brake still set, while you are in the drivers seat, select D and bump the idle up slightly. this has the converter adding heat to the transmission as well as the added load on the engine burning more fuel and will help the engine get to op temp/above 165 on the gauge.

once to temp, as level as you can get it, with it idling in N, if the oil level is below the add mark, like in the above procedure, add 1 quart, let it idle a minute then check again. keep doing this till you get it at least to the add line. it should work ok from there until you can check it fully warmed up and on level ground.