Mep-003a Sitting A Long Time

[ckesey]

I've bought a MEP-003A that was literally sitting in a field for several years (full of fuel). The fuel system is a mess and I'm working through that now. No working fuel pump, thick sludge in tank, lines and water separator half full of water. This fuel is a next level of varnish. The kind of stuff you smell for a few days after getting it on you.

Those issues aside, I recall a procedure to check the IP before rolling the engine over (such as this one that's been sitting for a long time) for the first time. Can someone point me to a thread that discusses this and/or anything else I should do before applying power.

 

[rickf]

That was written up by Ray on here. He should see your post here and chime in within the day or next.

 

[rickf]

@Ray70

 

[Ray70]

Saw it!
You can start by moving the throttle lever on the side of the IP.
If it is frozen, then do not rotate the motor at all!

Go to the TM section of this forum and locate the MEP-003A info.
In it you will find tons of additional info about the IP.
Determine if you have an Ambac M-50 or an American Bosch pump ( identified by the large flat head screw on the bottom of a Bosch pump and no screw on the Ambac M-50.

I'd suggest reviewing the IP data so you get familiar with the parts etc.

If you have a Bosch do not try to free it up, remove it , disassemble and clean it. If you break it using the procedure below, the Bosch is not repairable.

If you have an Ambac M-50 Continue reading:

Remove the 1" cap in the center of the IP, then remove the 5/8" 12 point cap under it, and remove the small spring and delivery valve/holder under it.
Disconnect the fuel line from the last filter and raise it up as high as possible.
Pour acetone into the line and eventually it should come out of the "open" IP pump.
Put the 5/8" 12 point cap and the 1" cap back on loosely.
keep filling the hose with acetone and let it sit for a good 4 days or more. add acetone if needed to keep it full.
If you have an air hose handy you can blow air in behind the acetone to help force it through the pump.
The refill.
after sitting, see if the linkage has freed up yet.
If so, remove the a caps on the IP again and put a 5/8" socket on the bolt on the blower wheel.
If not keep it full of acetone and wait a few more days.
Once the linkage is moving,
Get a bright light and shine it in the center of the IP so you can see the plunger.
Rock the engine back and forth slightly while looking for rotational movement of the plunger.
Note: it will rotate at 1/2 the speed you are rocking the crankshaft.
If movement is seen, rotate the crank further, back and forth.
The plunger will also be pumping in and out as well as rotating.
If it rotates but does not move in and out, tap it lightly with a brass punch and see if it will move inward until hitting against the camshaft.
Rotate again and see if it sticks again, if so continue tapping lightly after rotating until you can get it freed up.
You can also spray carb cleaner in the end of the IP while you are do this to help free things up.

On an Ambac M-50 if the plunger is frozen and the engine is rotated more than a small amount the plunger guide is designed to split in half, disconnecting the pump from the engine.
If you can rotate the engine but the plunger is not rotating, then you plunger guide is split and the pump needs to come apart to replace it.

 

[ckesey]

Looks like it's a Ambac-50 and the throttle cable does move freely. I'm going to remove the center screws as you suggest and check for rotation.

 

[Ray70]

I wouldn't rotate it yet. Take off the caps and fill it with acetone and let it sit several days.
I just had one last month, linkage was free but plunger was stuck and previous owner had cranked it over and split the plunger guide.
Not the end of the world, but better if you can soak it and give it a better chance for success!

 

[Scoobyshep]

One product you should have on hand is Knockerloose its made by crc. It is my goto penetrating oil

 

[Ray70]

People used to rave about Kroil, but your wallet will disagree!
Knock'er loose is just as good or better, at like a 60% discount over Kroil.

 

[ckesey]

Checking this tonight.

Should I be concerned about the old fuel in the injector lines? Take them loose and let the old fuel out?

I think the biggest issue with this one was all the water in the lower sections (water separator, fuel pumps, tanks, etc). I'm hopeful the upper sections were spared the sitting water.

 

[ckesey]

Got the caps off and sprayed everything sown with carb cleaner. I slowly rotated the engine and I can see the mechanism behind the button rotating. I can not tell if it's pumping out and in. I have rotated it and tapped on the inner section but still can't tell if it's plunging out/in. It's definitely rotating though.

Also from the parts breakdown there appears to be a spacer (5) in the diagram. Does this come out freely? Mine is either missing or is stuck if it's metal. This rubber type material was around the backside of the button (half was missing). Is this the spacer?

 

[Tinstar]

I highly recommend following the recommendations of the guys who know these pumps and generators inside and out.

These guys helped me get a 002A going and it had also been sitting for years.

Unless you know these generators as well as these guys, listening to them and doing EXACTLY as they recommend will save you time, money and frustration.

 

[Ray70]

It only moves in and out about 1/8" , if you tap on it and it feels solid it is probably moving freely and is touching the cam.
Since it was rotating, that's a good sign that it is free to move.
The delivery valve spacer is the thin sliver of plastic in your last photo.
All it does is keep the delivery valve holder in place when you reassemble the spring and caps.
It is not worth paying for a replacement, just use a dab of grease to hold it in place if you have difficulty.
I wouldn't worry about the fuel in the lines, it will work its way through quickly.

You got itchy and decided to not bother soaking it.... luckily it seems like your plunger wasn't stuck.

When the fuel system is cleaned up and you try to start it, smoke from the exhaust while cranking means the pump is working.
Absolutely no smoke at all will indicate the plunger is probably not pumping or injectors are stuck shut ( unlikely )

 

[Toolslinger]

Since you mentioned this unit was sitting in a field, I'd want to take a look inside any of the electrical panels, and controls for mouse houses... Hate to fire it up only to cause more issues due to shorts, or fire...

 

[Ray70]

Since you mentioned this unit was sitting in a field, I'd want to take a look inside any of the electrical panels, and controls for mouse houses... Hate to fire it up only to cause more issues due to shorts, or fire...

Excellent Tip! mice especially love the cozy, easy to access insides of the AC reconnect box! Would hate for him to literally "Fire" it up!

 

[rickf]

Also check under the engine shrouds and behind the cooling louvres. Mice will clog all of that up and on an air cooled engine that would be very bad.

 

[Scoobyshep]

People used to rave about Kroil, but your wallet will disagree!
Knock'er loose is just as good or better, at like a 60% discount over Kroil.

We used to use it on beachside for parking lot anchor bolts. Sandy salty wet anchor bolts. Knockerloose and heat works wonders (and it smells good)

 

[Scoobyshep]

Got the caps off and sprayed everything sown with carb cleaner. I slowly rotated the engine and I can see the mechanism behind the button rotating. I can not tell if it's pumping out and in. I have rotated it and tapped on the inner section but still can't tell if it's plunging out/in. It's definitely rotating though.

Also from the parts breakdown there appears to be a spacer (5) in the diagram. Does this come out freely? Mine is either missing or is stuck if it's metal. This rubber type material was around the backside of the button (half was missing). Is this the spacer?

Stupid and simple, Check strainer and filter plumbing. I have a set that needed an IP and the death was caused by the water strainer being plummbed backwards.


and cart way before the horse, Theres a wiring change to check, Specifically a mod to prevent flash current from destroying the starter.

 

[ckesey]

Thank you for the good info. Will definitely look inside these panels for mouse houses and any potential chewed wires before putting batteries on it.

I've removed both fuel pumps. The police department I bought it from said that was the orginal reason it was left abandoned. I've got a new one to put on it (and another on the way) to put it back with redundant pumps.

One of old fuel pumps would click but doesn't appear the plunger is moving as much as it should. I've disassembled it a few different times (they were both fairly bad with water sitting in them) but I think it's a lost cause. I've got it soaking right now but don't expect much out of it. I would love to keep an orginal fuel pump on it, but you can only do so much with these pumps.

 

[Guyfang]

If you haven't seen it. Here is the starter burn out problem.

 

[Guyfang]

I've removed both fuel pumps. (There should be three) The police department I bought it from said that was the original reason it was left abandoned. I've got a new one to put on it (and another on the way) to put it back with redundant pumps.

One of old fuel pumps would click but doesn't appear the plunger is moving as much as it should. I've disassembled it a few different times (they were both fairly bad with water sitting in them) but I think it's a lost cause. I've got it soaking right now but don't expect much out of it. I would love to keep an original fuel pump on it, but you can only do so much with these pumps.

Soak the E-pumps for a few day in a container of something to eat the lacquer up. Take them all the way apart.

You do know that the E-Pumps are "special"? They are designed to allow a good pump, to pump through a dead pump. Or to draw through a bad pump. That's why there are two in series. And lots of pumps LOOK like the right one, but few are.