Mk25 vs M1083

[The Power]

Hello all, first off I would like to thank you folks for the wealth of knowledge on this site. It has helped grow my understanding of these machines vastly. I’m looking to build a truck with a 10k to 12k 30’ crane. I’m on the fence as to an m1083/m1088 with a bed enhancement/bed build or an mk25 with the same. I like the capacity of the mk but the bed height and cab/stack height don’t leave much clearance. I like the cab room inside and the lower overall height/length/turning radius of the m1083. A winch truck I think would be a better choice for an easier crane install (wet kit) as would the winch since it will be used in some steep applications. The 21k towing capacity of both is a bummer for dot regs but especially for the mk and its potential. Please let me know your thoughts and where I may be wrong and/or things I haven’t thought of.
Thanks

 

[aw113sgte]

FMTVs are a lot more common and have a simpler drivetrain setup due to the solid axles. Parts are more plentiful.
MTVRs can do 65 mph stock compared the the about 58 of the fmtv (unless you get ecohubs). Parts can be hard to find - except you can order new parts from ATAP so that's a benefit the FMTVs don't have. Be ready to pay though.
MTVR is overall better built with the attention to detail in the design. Much more care was taken to prevent corrosion, lots of tef-gel used on fasteners, all connections coated with silicone. 22 tie rod boots on the MTVR with it's independent suspension and they will be rotted. MTVR has cross lockers in all axles so true 6 wheel drive versus MTV with none (3 wheel drive).
MTVR obviously has more power with the c12 vs c7(or 3116, 3126). C12 is unit injector and very reliable. 3116 is so old parts and people to work on them are an issue. 3126 HEUI system likes to blow up. C7 is by far the best for FMTV, it still have HEUI but is far more reliable that the3126 version.
I have a C7 (A1R) M1096 and a MTVR MK23if you have any specific questions.

 

[The Power]

I was under the impression the FMTVs had a locker in the intermediate axle so good to know. With you having both, how well do they drive in the winter? Would you happen to know the bed to ground height of each?

 

[DeMilitarized]

MTVR has ATC which the FMTV does not have. Having had both the FMTV and MTVR I have never looked back after having 9 MTVRs.

 

[aw113sgte]

I was under the impression the FMTVs had a locker in the intermediate axle so good to know. With you having both, how well do they drive in the winter? Would you happen to know the bed to ground height of each?

They have a locker in the transfer case, and the intermediate axle. What they don't have is cross-axle lockers, which the MTVR does.
3wd vs 6wd.
Also as demilitarized mentioned, mtvr has traction control. This allows it to brake spinning axles to transfer power, eliminating some of the need of engaging lockers.

 

[DeMilitarized]

Bed to ground height of a mtvr is probably 5.5ft. About eye level with a 6ft guy.

 

[wandering neurons]

At a previous job I had with a company that tested vehicles for a variety of customers, military and civilian, the MK23 MTVR was the gold standard that other vehicles were compared to. With the cross locking axles, sophisticated CTIS, powerful engine and matching transmission, and fully independent suspension, the MTVR would go places more quickly and comfortably than most others, especially mud, sand, and rocky terrain.
On the other hand, FMTV are much cheaper. Older models have available documentation and many more parts available. Newer models have limited manuals but a better engine.
MTVR manuals have not been released to the public and parts can be harder to find. MTVR are more massive vehicles too.
Decisions, decisions, ask questions!

 

[fuzzytoaster]

Without knowing specifics of your intended use it comes down to what you're willing to deal with. Both are capable machines in their own right and can be adapted to your use. If it were my choice I'd build on a M1084 and reuse the hydraulics for the existing crane for your desired crane. Sell the take off crane and you have 2' more reinforced frame to build on vs a MTV and MTVR. You can install Ecohubs or regear the diffs for 9-11 mpg vs 6 for the MTVR. Both can do 65 mph +/- with modifications. The MTVR has more HP, lockers, and higher weight rating (obviously). It is a tougher truck nut for nut bolt for bolt vs the MTV but both have the same inherent flaws: age, computers, "uniqueness", etc..

I like both trucks but the MTVR's current limited support and available knowledge (and price) make it difficult to sustain economically in my opinion. This could be acceptable if the situation demands more than a MTV's capabilities but that's a judgment call you have to make. The FMTV has been pretty well researched, discussed, and supported in the civilian market and that will save you time, frustration, and money. At the end of the day it sounds like you're going to work the truck and make money so ask yourself "how can i do this most efficiently" and go from there.

 

[The Power]

Thank you all for the input, you can read about something forever but the real life experience will teach better than any manual. I install equipment in some remote sites like towers, wells, etc. and also have some smaller earth moving equipment (dozer, track loader) that are a bit to heavy for a 1 ton. I have to get to some of these sites regardless of the weather and most are fairly steep. I was leaning towards the m1088 at first but from the responses I now think the mk25 would be the better option. I‘ve looked at the MME site and I can’t really see anything that stands out (new hoses, batteries, brake chambers, etc.) that justifies the prices but maybe I don’t understand the market. I worked for a large equipment dealer for a number of years so repair know how is not as big an issue as time for me. I know the build will take some time as will the work to refurbish the older trucks. The long term reliability is probably the bigger concern. I‘m not able to afford going “commercial“ for a truck but I can’t see paying for a “flipped“ truck either. Are there any other places to look other than govplanet and MME? Please forgive my ignorance but what are cross lockers? A selectable locker maybe??

 

[DeMilitarized]

I sent you a pm. Cross lockers are between left and right wheels there is a locker (traditional locker). There is also a power divider between the intermediate and rear axle and a power divider between the front and rear. 70/30 split power all time AWD. Selectable to 50/50

 

[Ronmar]

What Demil said. cross lockers turn a 1 wheel drive open diff axle into 2 wheel drive. it can be confusing. on an open diff, all the torque can escape from any wheel that loses traction. a cross locker ties the two wheel axles together so both must spin equally.

The power divider and transfer case differentials work the same way except front to rear on the vehicle to allow any wheel to spin faster than the wheel receiving the torque as needed to prevent binding in the drivetrain...

Power divider and transfer case lockers turn you from AWD(1 wheel drive) into 4WD(2 wheel drive) or 6 wheel drive(3 driven wheels).
in all wheel drive, lift/spin any single wheel and the truck won't move as all the torque can escape thru that one spinning wheel.
in 4 or 6 wheel drive you would have to have one wheel lifted/spinning on each axle to keep the vehicle from moving.
with cross lockers all 4 or 6 wheels must spin to stop the vehicle from moving. When locked up, The ground MUST allow slippage(dirt, gravel, snow) lest you damage/destroy driveshafts and axle shafts thru binding caused by tires that cannot slip...

 

[DeMilitarized]

Long story short, MTVR can have every single tire spin at the exact same speed

 

[aw113sgte]

I bought a FMTV Midwest Military truck. I would not do it again. Huge price increase and tons of issues I had to fix. They pretty much make the trucks look pretty from afar but a lot of butter face going on. My government auction MTVR was in better shape for 1/3 the price.

 

[ckouba]

No experience on the MTVR platform but I can say that with lockers in both rear axles and set in "Mode", you get (at least) 5 wheel drive on a 1088. That is the set up I have with Eco Hubs and I am very pleased with how it runs at ~30k and a single leaf from the spring pack removed. Check my build thread (link in my sig) for details.

The only thing I am thinking of changing are the final drives. I have the 3.07 gears and plan to go back to the 3.9's when I have the opportunity. That said, the current set up has served me well over almost 20k miles. I did ~4500 this spring, of which ~900 were truly off pavement, and it was a fantastic time.

In the wilds of Utah:

 

[swbradley1]

I bought a FMTV Midwest Military truck. I would not do it again. Huge price increase and tons of issues I had to fix. They pretty much make the trucks look pretty from afar but a lot of butter face going on. My government auction MTVR was in better shape for 1/3 the price.

Like my late Dad said, "Pretty sells".

 

[serpico760]

Bed to ground height of a mtvr is probably 5.5ft. About eye level with a 6ft guy.

And bed height of an fmtv is 5 ft