New hoses and fittings for my 002a

[Ray70]

Ray70 where do you get your hoses online?
I just had one made to go between the first and second fuel pump on an 003a that cost me $61 at Pacific Rubber.
I am considering doing all the fuel lines on both 003a's that I just picked up, so was looking for a lower cost option.

Go to www.Discounthydraulichose.com
I was getting those short fuel hoses custom made for under $20 ea. a couple years ago.
I know prices went up a little but for $61 you could probably get all the fuel filter hoses made.

 

[massey]

I switched the hoses on my -002 to 3/8" DOT air brake lines back in 2012 and have had no issues. Some of you may remember a member RustyStud, he worked at a metro bus company and claimed that is what they ran for their fuel lines.
I sourced all the hoses and fittings at a local big truck store called Heavy Fleet, there may be a similar source near you.

 

[Ray70]

I remember Rusty!
You can try a place called Fleet Pride, they have locations all over the place including 3 in VA.
The can also ship to you if they are too far away.
They carry a ton of different heavy equipment parts and supplies.

 

[Toolslinger]

I've seen this posted before, and it's always interesting. I have yet to find a listing for DOT air brake tube that indicates it's acceptable for diesel fuel use. I mean I haven't made it a quest to find it, but it sure hasn't jumpped out at me...

I'm not saying it doesn't work.

I'm simply amazed a commercial operation would run tubing that wasn't expressly approved for fuel use. That seems like it would be a massive liability issue. Engine bay fire? Unapproved fuel line? How's that going to play out? Keep in mind there are a couple different materials that I see listed as DOT air brake tube. I've seen Nylon, and Polyester. Are they both good with diesel? I'm pretty sure nylon is ok, but what nylon, there are different options there too...

 

[87cr250r]

One of the reasons a particular line won't be recommended for a fuel is because there are too many governing bodies to comply (DOT, SAE, USCG, etc) with and no one line is able to meet all criteria.

I work in commercial marine so I fall under 46CFR. Our rule for fuel lines is simple, they require double hose clamps and must be 30 inches or less in length.

OR

They must comply with SAE J1942

There is also a SAE J1157 which has more strict specifications with regards to the hose material and fire resistance but that does not apply to vessels operating under subchapter M and doesn't also qualify the hose for our service because it doesn't also imply J1942 acceptance.

Fuel hoses for road vehicles are covered under SAE J30. You should consider SAE J30R5 and under obsolete. Return lines require special consideration because they operate at higher temperatures.

 

[Ray70]

I've seen this posted before, and it's always interesting. I have yet to find a listing for DOT air brake tube that indicates it's acceptable for diesel fuel use. I mean I haven't made it a quest to find it, but it sure hasn't jumpped out at me...

I'm not saying it doesn't work.

I'm simply amazed a commercial operation would run tubing that wasn't expressly approved for fuel use. That seems like it would be a massive liability issue. Engine bay fire? Unapproved fuel line? How's that going to play out? Keep in mind there are a couple different materials that I see listed as DOT air brake tube. I've seen Nylon, and Polyester. Are they both good with diesel? I'm pretty sure nylon is ok, but what nylon, there are different options there too...

Perhaps we're jumping to conclusions as to what Rusty was actually using? There is nylon air brake tube and there is air brake hose. I get what you're saying about the semi-rigid nylon and polyester tubes, but perhaps that's not what Rusty meant? What about the rest of the "air brake system" that often uses DOT 100R5 type hose? You will sometimes find this type of hose in the area around the air compressor and the brake canisters etc. rather than the nylon tube. It is essentially low pressure braided nitrile hydraulic line and is not only rated for Air brakes, but also petroleum products, gasoline, diesel and hydraulic oils as well. not to mention designed to work with the same reusable fittings.
This hose in a 5/16" ID might be a better solution than the $10/foot Aeroquip hose, for reusing the original 002 hose ends.

 

[87cr250r]

If you're going to go the SAE 100R route I strongly recommend a hose with an AT rating for on engine applications. The hose I most common use is Parker 426 or Aeroquip FC-234. They are SAE 100R1AT rated.

A note about using air brake tubing, it's not static dissipative and can generate quite the voltage if you're flowing non-conductive fluids through it. I have seen a discharge once with a pump and filter mounted on a hand truck. The engineer touched a hose and it the spark extended the entire length of his arm. I could see and hear the flash and bang from the other side of a running turbogenerator.

 

[edgephoto]

I decided to see if this hose will work. The OD is .60 inches and Aeroquip 303-5 is .5278". I can't find ID dimensions for this hose. For under $40 I took a chance. I have another application I can use this if it won't work.

Burst pressure is 435 psi vs. 12,000 psi for the Aeroquip.

 

[87cr250r]

That hose is most similar to on SAE J30R5 hose. It's not suitable for return line applications due to temperature. It is not a substitute for Aeroquip 303 as it's not wire reinforced. Aeroquip 303 is for aircraft applications. I don't know the Aeroquip catalog well but I think FC350 is the equivalent road vehicle hose so you don't have to pay the aviation premium. Parker 201 and 206 are also alternatives. The braided cover hoses are meant show chaffing damage. If you don't need to show chaffing damage and want a hose that's easier to keep clean use the Aeroquip FC234 or Parker 426 they have the same construction with a rubber cover.

 

[massey]

rustystud said:
Yes it was 3/8". Actually DOT brake line has been used for fuel hoses for over 30 years. IHC used it back in the 70's even. All the busses where I work at (King County Metro Transit) use this hose for fuel. It comes in many different colors, so you can color code it for your applications. I like green for fuel lines. and black for the air-lines.


Sorry, I had this conversation with rusty in 2014, not 2012. Based on this I assumed he meant the nylon hose air brake line which I went with.

 

[87cr250r]

The Aeroquip FC350 and Parker 201/206 are DOT brake hose. I have seen these used for fuel applications. I have never seen nylon tubing used for fuel. The nylon tubing uses push to connect fittings which have an o-ring so you need to be mindful of the o-ring material. The temperature rating of nylon tubing is marginal for on engine and return line applications.

 

[rickf]

I have been reading through the descriptions of the line sizes here. I would like to know if the -5, and 4 and 6 are the same configuration as the AN fittings used on race vehicles? If they are then hose and reusable fitting are very easy to find. For that matter, if they are different just get the AN to pipe thread fitting and replace the on on the canister.

 

[2Pbfeet]

I have been reading through the descriptions of the line sizes here. I would like to know if the -5, and 4 and 6 are the same configuration as the AN fittings used on race vehicles? If they are then hose and reusable fitting are very easy to find. For that matter, if they are different just get the AN to pipe thread fitting and replace the on on the canister.

It is subtle, but they are different;

https://www.mfcp.com/hs-fs/hubfs/MFCP/Blogs/2021/comparison-jic-an-parker-triple-fitting.png?length=800&name=comparison-jic-an-parker-triple-fitting.png

All the best, 2PbFeet

 

[rickf]

I am assuming the set has Parker Triple Fitting? So the AN is a different thread and angle? So would I just be able to replace the pump and filter housing fittings with AN fittings? They both are pipe thread into the part. Then you could use multiple varieties of lines made for race applications. And much cheaper than hydraulic. Also designed for high heat. Or is it just the angle? The two different thread designations are the same thread but different tolerance specs.

 

[rickf]

We are talking about 8 lbs. max pressure? Not like we are asking for a perfect seal holding 3,000 PSI.

Just looking for viable options.

 

[2Pbfeet]

We are talking about 8lbs. max pressure? Not like we are asking for a perfect seal holding 3,000 PSI.

Just looking for viable options.

I agree that it is low pressure, but in my limited experience diesel fuel is a master of coming through very slight mismatches.

If it were me, I would think about an adapter hose with -AN on one end, and SAE/JIC on the other. There are screw on hose ends, and hydraulic crimpers are not anywhere near as expensive as they used to be, especially if you catch a sale.

I do think that @87cr250r's comments on fuel and temperature rating are worthwhile.

All the best, 2PbFeet

 

[rickf]

Next time I have mine running I am going to check the temperature on the return fuel.

 

[edgephoto]

Regular fuel line is rated to around 250 deg F, I believe. Does the return side get hotter than that?

 

[87cr250r]

I don't think that chart is correct. Parker Triple Lok fittings are the predecessor of JIC which is 37°. SAE is 45 degree. You can use SAE female on JIC male if the threads match. JIC female on SAE male will leak.

When you operate close to the maximum temperature rating you need to expect short life expectancy for the hose. This usually manifests as cracks in the ends of the hoses where the fittings insert or a stiff hose that cracks when you bend it. I assume on engine hoses will see temperatures or 200-210 degrees. SAE J30R5 hose is rated for 212 degrees. SAE100R1AT is rated for 302 degrees.

Every option brought up here will work... for a while. You want to avoid the expensive options that don't last longer than the cheap options. Parker 836 will outlast Parker 201 for a fraction of the price. Parker 206, 426 will last more than the life of the vehicle.

 

[edgephoto]

@87cr250r Thanks for bringing up the temp rating. I did not even think about that. I probably will use this hose for another project and just buy the 303-5 hose and be done with it. Other options are $7/ft up to $20/ft and I can buy 303-5 for $10/ft.