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Very Cold Start with Starting Fluid spray can

Tiwaz

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I rarely find myself in the 40/50's living in S. Florida but when I do (my dashboard lights turn on on their own even with the switch in OFF) the 6.5 TD engine just does not want to start it literally takes 20-25 tries about 5-7 seconds each when normally it starts immediately, of course that takes a nasty toll on the batteries and other things.
I heard people spraying starter fluid in the intake, is that recommendable...? what kind...? can you spray and then try or do you need a second person to try while you are spraying...?
 

Bulldogger

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No, do not use starting fluid. Not on this type of engine. It will eventually destruct something.

If you can't cold start in 40F you are not getting power to the glow plugs, or they are dead. Start there. There are plenty of threads here on troubleshooting glow plug issues. Easiest thing to do to start is check them with an ohmmeter. You should get around 2 ohms per. From your description, expect to see an open circuit (infinite resistance). Unless something is preventing your start box from sending power to the glow plugs, they need to be replaced. Source them from reliable sources, pay the seemingly extra cost, versus eBay or Amazon sources, so you get true quality plugs.

If you get even 3-4 glow plugs with 1.5-2.0 Ohms, then they are not getting power, which is often the start box.

I'll let others chime in with more T/S details, but glow plugs are the best place to start.

A separate thread may be a good idea for the dash light question. If the lighting switch is OFF, the dash lights should be also OFF. Could be a bad switch, it happens, or previous owner electrical snafus.

BDGR
 

Thunderbirds

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Is your voltmeter changing in value when you first turn the switch on? When the glow plugs are being powered, the needle drops into the lower part of the yellow band. then returns to the upper part of the yellow band when the stop glowing. Then when the engine is started it reads in the middle of the green.

If your needle is not moving around during the plug activation, you have any one of many issues. Start with the T/S guide in the TM just as @Bulldogger suggested.

EDIT:

Oh, and never use starting fluid. Too risky of a total failure for such a simple system to be fixed...
 
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Tiwaz

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I do have another thread going about the lights but only one answer there


as far as the glow plugs I have a situation where my amber light has never turned on since I bought the truck, the old owner told me:
"Don't worry about it we are always in the 80's down here fuel does not need to be warmed up but if you are concerned just wait 10-15 seconds" Which I do all the time. The truck starts immediately always in less than 1 second (really) this problem happens only in the 40/50's which luckily does not occur often in S. Florida
 

Thunderbirds

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as far as the glow plugs I have a situation where my amber light has never turned on since I bought the truck, the old owner told me:
"Don't worry about it we are always in the 80's down here fuel does not need to be warmed up but if you are concerned just wait 10-15 seconds" Which I do all the time. The truck starts immediately always in less than 1 second (really) this problem happens only in the 40/50's which luckily does not occur often in S. Florida
.
First sign of ESSS failure, maybe look into manual push button addition/alteration. I just recently did after my 2nd box burned out the glow plug controller. All other functions were still working.

Also, maybe your dash light issue is from the box as well/ Others will know more, such as @Mogman or @Retiredwarhorses @TOBASH @Milcommoguy
 
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KKroger

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I mean the wait light could have gone bad I had that happne, replaced light and it was working again. I replaced my plugs later on recently in fact and only 2 of 8 glow plugs was semi working at all, the rest were open... truck still started but required a bit more cranking in colder weather. it starts pretty easy now. also check the cold advance switch back of right cylinder head. that can affect starting in the cold too. so make sure you have 24VDC at the glow plug when you turn it to run before starting and warming up, use a temp gun or a thermal camera to verify you are heating the glow plugs, you can fairly easily check the resistance of individual plugs while still in the engine just some are tough to reach.
 

TOBASH

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Have you checked each glow plug for resistance? Are any of them functioning.

If your PCB/EESS is perfect but your plugs are dead then the engine won’t start easily.
 

M1165A1

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As others have said start with glow plugs.

But my .02: when you replace them, use quality Wellman plugs not anything else. Life is too short for junky chinese plugs.

 

KKroger

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As others have said start with glow plugs.

But my .02: when you replace them, use quality Wellman plugs not anything else. Life is too short for junky chinese plugs.

And get the extractor tool.even if you dont happen to need it if you do need it and don't have it you will will wish you did...
 

Tiwaz

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yeah... unfortunately I do have a multi-meter but I am not so mechanically inclined, I don't even know where the glow plugs are or where their impedance/resistance gets measured.
I do no believe the amber light is bad because some time I turn the ignition key to start and I see the light briefly flash for a tenth of a second.
 

Coug

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If you know where the injectors are on the engine, you can find the glow plugs. They are pretty much the only thing with an electrical wire going to them on the side of the engine block, and are a few inches directly below the injectors.

The wire has a rubber boot on it that goes over the glow plug. You remove the wire/rubber boot from the plug, and put one meter probe on the end tip of the glow plug, and the other to a good engine ground (any exposed metal on the block will do)

They should be somewhere around 1.5 ohms. Pretty much anywhere between 1 and 5 ohms is still okay. When failed, they are usually no reading at all, or up in the thousands to millions of ohms. Occasionally they read a dead zero, but that seems less common.

Depending on your alternator, the driver's side can be reached from on top of the engine, reaching down behind the alt. Can't do that with the 400 amp, but 200 amp it's easy.
Passenger side can access them by removing the doghouse cover and reaching into the space. Might be a little tight, but doable.

I was only able to reach the rear 3 plugs on either side like this, but unless you're talking sub zero weather, 6 glow plugs will start the engine just fine and with minimal smoke. Mine was starting at freezing on only one confirmed good plug, 5 bad, and 2 unknown condition.


EDIT: with the multimeter do make sure to touch the leads together beforehand to find wire/probe resistance to subtract from your reading on the glowplug. I have seen some meters that have more than 1 ohm resistance through the wires/probes and that will throw off the measurement enough to matter sometimes.
 
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Thunderbirds

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Tiwaz

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GREAT INFO Mull, sounds easier than I anticipated, at least for 6 of the 8 since I got a 200A generator. How many do you reach from the doghouse and can you do it from the outside sitting on the engine..?
 

Coug

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As I said, passenger side I could access from the doghouse easier for 3 of them, and driver's side 3 from the top, though I imagine you could reach from the doghouse as well if you tried.

EDIT: some people have said they can reach them from under the truck, but I wasn't motivated enough after making sure 6 were enough to easily start the truck.
 
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Thunderbirds

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BUT...


please make sure you are not getting 24V continuously at your glow plug connector, or you will just burn up the next set of plugs you just installed. If you can use a voltmeter, measure from a connector you just took off a glow plug and measure voltage to the engine block. It sounds harder than it is, give it a try. you should have 24 volts for around 6-8 seconds only. My last box had constant voltage.

You saying you sometimes get a flicker of the amber light leads me to believe your box may shot and it is a crap shoot if you get no voltage or continuous....

EDIT:

Found this for good info:

 

KKroger

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MAke sure the Multi wire plug on top of the TSU is plugged all the way in. Put the meter on one Glow Plug and turn on the swtich and see if you get 28V at the glow plug for up to I think it is 14 Seconds. then 0. the Glow plug boots are Orange... next to each injector to its left. and a little lower. you should be able to see the back 3 on the drivers side fairly easily unless you have the 400A alternator. the front one from the bottom, all of the Passengers side should be accessible through the doghouse, or with the Breather Tube off. Make sure the wiring is intact. I had a boot that the squirrels had chewed... doesn't affect function but...
 

Retiredwarhorses

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MAke sure the Multi wire plug on top of the TSU is plugged all the way in. Put the meter on one Glow Plug and turn on the swtich and see if you get 28V at the glow plug for up to I think it is 14 Seconds. then 0. the Glow plug boots are Orange... next to each injector to its left. and a little lower. you should be able to see the back 3 on the drivers side fairly easily unless you have the 400A alternator. the front one from the bottom, all of the Passengers side should be accessible through the doghouse, or with the Breather Tube off. Make sure the wiring is intact. I had a boot that the squirrels had chewed... doesn't affect function but...
glow plug timer is 9 seconds, 14 seconds or longer will fry those plugs, if the plugs are working you won’t see 28volts, you will see 23-24v as the amps are pulled from 7 Glow plugs, after the GP lamp expires but before engine starts the voltage will go to battery voltage, once the engine is running it will slowly move to 27.5-28.5 as the generator comes on line.
 

KKroger

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glow plug timer is 9 seconds, 14 seconds or longer will fry those plugs, if the plugs are working you won’t see 28volts, you will see 23-24v as the amps are pulled from 7 Glow plugs, after the GP lamp expires but before engine starts the voltage will go to battery voltage, once the engine is running it will slowly move to 27.5-28.5 as the generator comes on line.
You are correct sir. Teach me to get in a hurry typing. Battery voltage is what I should have said since it is before the Alternator starts charging.
 

Tiwaz

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ok so to recap:
1. Check that every glow plug is getting 24V for about 9 seconds and then it goes to 0 (if this is happening the controller box is working as it should then the glow plugs themselves (1 or more) may be bad. How do you measure the resistance 2-4 Ω ?
2. If you continue getting the 24V after 12 seconds your glow plugs are burnt - replace BUT NOT BEFORE checking the reason for the 24V to be continuous.

Now the question is: Do you have to check the TSU and if so How do you check that ?
I am still a lil confused on the steps sequence.
Friday will be in the 40's here in S. Florida which is extremely rare, I guess I will have to download again my Uber app.
 
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